The Grief of the World with Kelly Norton

It’s easy to feel heavy and overwhelmed by the suffering and devastation happening in our world right now. It seems like there is no end to the pain caused by living in the world or to the pain that can be caused by the choices of other people. 

In today’s podcast episode, I am sharing a recent conversation I had with grief coach, Kelly Norton, who shared some powerful thoughts about how to handle and manage the grief of the world and the pain we feel witnessing the realities of the human condition and the suffering of others. 

We talk about how we can manage the mental and emotional weight of catastrophic current events, how to balance being informed with protecting your peace, how feeling bad is actually a good thing, and how to allow for joy even in the worst of times.

I hope this conversation helps you feel less alone in your sorrow or fear, gives you help and permission to feel and process your emotions, and teaches you some practical things that you can do to feel better and to help increase the amount of love in the world.

I think it's a really valuable conversation for any of you who struggle with the pain of being human and the grief of the world.

To find out more about Kelly Norton’s grief coaching you can go to: www.kellynortoncoaching.com or find her on Instagram @kellynortoncoaching

Transcript

Welcome to the 100% Awesome Podcast with April Price. You might not know it, but every result in your life is 100% because of the thought you think. And that, my friends, is 100% awesome.

Hello podcast universe! Welcome to episode 235 of the 100% Awesome Podcast. I'm April Price, I want to welcome you to the podcast, and thank you for being here and for sharing the podcast. It means so much to me. How are you? How are you doing down here on Earth? How how are you handling the pain and the suffering and the difficulty and the challenges that comes as just, you know, the inevitable part of being a human in a fallen world. And are you making room for the joy and the wonder and the abundance that is also a part of your experience? That is what we were going to be talking about today. Are you allowing all of it to be a part of your life, or do you find yourself too often sort of arguing with it and thinking that things should be different? Maybe a little of both, right. That's where I usually find myself, like just kind of torn between the two. And I feel like there are moments where I'm better at allowing the suffering and also receiving the joy.

And then again, there are plenty of times where I feel like I'm just arguing and resisting all of it, right? And lately, especially as I have looked at the world and the intense suffering that is happening right now, and the fighting and the fear and the futility of it, I have had a lot of moments of heaviness and overwhelm and discouragement, and I have imagined you out there having a similar experience. And that's what prompted today's episode. So, this week I had a conversation with my very good friend Kelly Norton, and some of you will remember her. Kelly has been on the podcast before back at episode 123, about more than 100 episodes ago. It is still one of my most downloaded episodes. Kelly is a phenomenal grief coach, and really what I consider to be just an absolute expert on grief and the experience of grief and how to navigate it and manage it. And I knew that she was the perfect person to share some thoughts with us about how to handle the suffering in the world, how to think about and manage the experience of what I am calling the grief of the world.

The grief over the human condition, grief over the suffering of others. And how do we mentally and emotionally handle that, manage that, deal with that? And how do we make peace with the really unthinkable, catastrophic, destructive events that we witness and see all the time in our world, whether it is a school shooting or the fires in Maui, or the war between Israel and Hamas or Russia and Ukraine, like, these are just like the very most recent things, right? It just seems like there is no end to devastation, both because we live in a fallen world where bad things can and do happen, but also because we live with other humans, other humans who get to choose, and other humans who sometimes choose to hurt each other, who have the ability to choose to cause pain and suffering for others.

And honestly, we ourselves are not exempt from that we cause pain and suffering in the world as well. And so, I just think it's something that we all need to wrestle with time to time and make peace with. And I wanted to give you some new ways to think about the grief of the world. And I wanted to share this conversation with you so that you one don't feel so alone in your dismay and your sorrow and your fear, and also to give you help and permission to feel and process your emotions, and finally to give you some really practical things that you can do to feel better and to help increase the amount of love in the world that sometimes feels like it's only full of hate.

Okay, so I think this is going to be a really valuable conversation that you could return to again and again anytime something bad happens in the world to just help each of us who struggle with that, who struggle with the pain of being human and witnessing the grief of the world. So here we go.

Welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad to be talking to you about this.

Thank you for having me again.

Yeah, you came to mind almost immediately as like you're just watching the things that are happening in Israel between Hamas and Israel come up and like, yeah, another catastrophic, devastating. Painful thing happening in the world, right? And it just feels like. You know there is no end to it. And sometimes I just feel. I'm sure, as you do, just like so dismayed by the human condition, right. And like, when are we going to figure this out? And how do we how do we navigate it as humans?

Well, and it's so hard because I feel like maybe I just was less aware when I was younger, but I feel like when we were younger, it was like there would be one big event and then it would kind of resolve and things would go back to normal, and then there would be another tragic event, but there was space in between, and now it just feels like it's constant and there's so many things. It's overwhelming, yeah, I agree with that.

Totally, and I was probably like you too. Pretty sheltered from the news and things like that. And I feel like even like the way we got our news, like, was less. Traumatic. Like mostly I read the newspaper for any kind of like headlines, and it's so different to like, read text as opposed to like, see visually. So much pain.

Yes. And everybody has a smartphone in their pocket. And so you get a more of an unfiltered view of the, the true pain that's going on. And it is traumatic to see.

Yeah. And, and think that's true that it hasn't been edited or like even. For lack of a better word, categorized and made sense of before it's been given to you. It's just like. You know, raw. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I thought it would just be really useful to kind of get together and talk about how we handle and navigate things like this in the world, and how we make sense of the pain that we individually feel.

I think, especially even when we don't know somebody personally involved. And so I guess I would just start with, like, what do we do with the fact that there is suffering in the world? Right? This isn't the first bad thing that happened and it won't be the last. Do you have any tools or tips or thoughts about like just how we accept that that is the reality.

It's a hard one. It's a hard one to accept. I read an article this week, actually, just one of those serendipitous things that someone else shared, and I clicked on it. And I don't know why, but it was meant to be. But it was by a writer called Jeff Chew, and he wrote about Habakkuk, the Old Testament prophet Habakkuk, and he was kind of overseeing the destruction of his people. And just watching this destruction happen and knowing that his people were going to be destroyed by Babylon, even though Babylon was even more wicked than they were.

And he says this prayer, um, oh Lord, how long shall I cry? And and thou wilt not hear, even cry unto thee of violence, and thou will not save. Why does thou show me iniquity, and caused me to behold grievance? For spoiling and violence are before me, and there are that raise up strife and contention. And so he's been praying this prayer to just.

Feel that, so deeply.

Right?

Yes. Just like this is not right. And I'm praying for you to change it. And it's not being changed. And not only is it not being changed and he's you know, saying there's violence. You know, like he's like, yes. Trying to get it. There's really bad things. Can you see what's happening. Yeah. Yeah. Like don't know if you're noticing this but hello there's bad things happening. And not only does he not change but you know in the in this book God is forcing him to look and it's his role as the prophet to.

To look and to see these things. To witness it. And loved this quote. This is Jeff Chiu speaking. He said, much as we might like to turn away, to bear witness to the brutality of our world is an act of faith. To name evil for what it is cruel, barbaric, inhumane is to express our belief in something better. To say that something is wrong is to make a claim for what is right. To declare injustice is to testify that justice is possible, that justice is necessary, that justice can still somehow be embodied.

And I just love that so much, because I think that is when we see these things in the world. I think for most of us it's a sense of like, this is not how it is supposed to be. Like this is not the way we're supposed to treat each other. This is not what's supposed to happen. And I think that's, you know, it's a good part of us that is. Yeah. You know, I think that sometimes we're like, well, but it is what's happening. And so it's kind of hard to wrestle with it.

But we just have to remember that's the goodness in us. That's the light in us, the humanity.
In each of us that says I care that when bad things happen. And if we didn't have that part of us, that might be more concerning.

Yeah. And think, I think when we get bombarded with so much, there can be a kind of numbness that comes or you just can't take any more in. But I think just, you know, recognizing that. Our resistance against the bad things is the good in us. It's the love, you know.

Oh, that is such a lovely thought to sort of stop resisting our own resistance. Right. Like, this is the part of me that I love. What you said there. That this is the love.

Yeah. Because thought about, like, dropping my resistance to those things. And I'm like, yeah, I don't want to drop. I don't want to ever say, this is.

That's okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It just reminds me of when my kids were little. I remember we were Olivia was like ten years old and we were reading the Book of Mormon, and it was like at the end of the Book of Mormon. So, everybody's dying, and it's just like one destruction after another, and they're like this guy and his 10,000 and this guy and his 10,000, and this guy and his 10,000 is just like being slaughtered, right? And I remember her just looking up at me with horror in her eyes and just tears streaming down her face, saying, like, why would you have us read a book that doesn't have a happy ending? Like she just looked at me like, what kind of a mother are you to expose me?

Oh, Olivia.

Right to the reality and the brutality of the world.

Yeah.

And like, I think for so many of us, like, I relate to what he’s is saying, right? Like. Yeah. Are you there? Are you looking do you see what I see? And I think that was Olivia was saying like, well, what are we doing down here where this is part of this reality, right?

Yes, yes. And think that we can have that even in our own personal lives as well as, like, you know, the global picture, but to look and be like, hey, yeah, someone in my life is really suffering or am really suffering. Yeah. And it's it's really hard to watch and. Yes.

Are you there? Can you see this?

Yeah, yeah.

So, I want to talk a little bit about how much suffering we see and are exposed to. Right. Because like, just like you said, like sometimes we can become numb to it and like it feels like our capacity is limited, but the amount of suffering in the world is limitless, right? Feels like there's a discrepancy there between, like, my capacity to hold pain as opposed to like how much there is. And I'm wondering what you think about, like, how much we actually think about and witness and bear witness to.

Think it's it. That question just reminds me of a cartoon. I think I first saw it in 2020, like during all the, you know, pandemic and the election and the racial strife and all the things that were going on, there's this little cartoon or two people were walking down the street and one guy turns to the other, and he's like, my desire to to stay informed is at odds with my desire to stay sane. And yes, I was like, that's not even funny. It's like, so just how I feel, because we just aren't meant to take in the whole the suffering of the whole world.

We're just not. And so it is tricky to find that balance of, yes, I want to bear witness to other people's grief and sadness and, and lift up in ways that I can, but I also I cannot take in everything. And so finding the balance for you is, you know, personally, I think some people have a greater capacity to just take it in and some some of us can't take in very much without being really overwhelmed by it.

And so, think that's kind of the challenge is to find that balance for you of what is okay, and then making it okay when you're like enough, because there you do read things like, well, it's a privilege to be able to turn off your computer and not look at the news. You know, it's a it's a privilege to not. And I'm like.

No, but it is.

But, you know, they don't have that privilege. But we do. And we can use that to strengthen ourselves to be able to help more later. I just think we can't always be on.

Yeah, I think that's one of the most challenging things about modern life in general. But also like just my husband talks about this concept in his work of compassion fatigue. And that that is a very real thing. Is that like after so much time of seeing people's pain, like at the hospital or whatever, like you stop registering like their pain, right? Like it's almost like your brain can't it sort of normalizes pain. So then it you can't feel the appropriate amount of, you know, compassion for it.

Yeah. And I think when we, you know, marinate too much in what's going on that could for sure happen.

Uh huh.

Where we just get.

So, you feel like it's all right to set up those boundaries and decide, like, how much I can.

Think it's healthy to set up those boundaries. Yeah, and maybe you do want to be informed, but, like we were talking about earlier, the videos are are too much. So find a way to read it without even if it's like, yeah, I'm going to find this article and print it out so that a pop up video doesn't come up into my face. But they're mean. There are still newspapers out there somewhere, but we, you know, it's it's harder to do it that way. But I think, you know, just being really protective of yourself.

And that's intentional consumption where you're not just.

Sitting in front of it, passively consuming, but being like, I want to learn more about this and finding ways to do it. Versus just having it be bombarded by it.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I read your post. You made an amazing post on Instagram that just kind of like had three important tips, I think. And I really wanted you to be able to talk to my audience and like, just share these three tips that like when things are hard and overwhelming in the world, what you really recommend that that people do, and the first one that you talked about was talking with someone. Can you just elaborate about that a little bit? Yeah.

Think what we keep inside grows bigger and getting it out, even when you think everyone's sick of hearing about it or it feels silly because, again, it's not your personal pain. Yeah, this is a little bit different. But like a celebrity death, this is just like my example of talking it out back when Chadwick Boseman died. I'm not a big celebrity person. I like, you know, celebrities passed away. I'm like, oh, that's sad for their family, you know, or whatever. Don't know why, but when he passed away, I was so sad and I was like, I feel so silly because it's not like I've, like, seen one of his movies.

Like, I'm not even, like a super fan. Like, why am I so sad about this? So upset. And I reached I was talking to my sister in law, Mandy, and I was like, I'm so sad about this. Just like me too. And it just made me feel less alone in it and made it feel okay. And you can always give yourself permission to be okay, but kind of don't know. There's something really healing about somebody else saying me to. I'm feeling the same way. I'm struggling the same way. And then you can kind of grow through it together versus by yourself and just think it's good to get it out because inside of you, that turmoil doesn't.

It doesn't look good for your body or your spirit or any of it.

Yeah, that reminded me. Just I have a friend recently that had a death in her family and like our whole church community was affected by it and it felt so good to be able to go to church and like, talk about it with other people who loved them. Right, and like to cry together and just hug each other and to be able to say to each other, this is unbelievable. This is terrible. Just to be able to talk it out.

You're saying that reminded me how good it felt to kind of share the grief and share the dismay and the despair.

Yeah, community is so important. Even if it's just two of you, you know, it just it makes it so much easier to bear.

I love that. Okay, the next thing you talked about kind of touched on already, but you said to take a break, right? That that sometimes we can feel careless or uncaring when we do that, but that it's really important. And I kind of want to talk about this in two ways, if you're right, with that, like physically and literally and then like emotionally as well, like take how we get relief kind of emotionally and take a break there. So you know, we kind of talked about physically, is there anything else that you want to add to that?

Well, when you were talking just reminded me how sometimes like, not just like turning off the TV or turning off your phone or whatever, but actually like getting out and doing something different, like taking a walk or during the pandemic when it was those early days and it was kind of scary. And there were a lot of rumors of, you know, it was just kind of unknown. And it felt so isolating to just drive around and like, see, oh, you know what? Everything's the world is spinning.

We're still here. Yeah. It just it was so simple, but it was a comfort to be like, everything's still okay. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's a powerful I was going to say there were so many times during the pandemic where I would just go outside and sit on my patio, and I was like, do the trees know there's a pandemic? Like, do the birds know? Because they're just like doing their thing, you know, and you're like, yeah, does the sun know? And I know that sounds silly, but it was like, so such a powerful reminder to me that like like think like the world is still spinning. It's still life is still going on even though it feels like catastrophe.

Yeah, yeah.

And then I was thinking about the idea of taking a break emotionally. And I think this is a really important thing that maybe we don't give enough attention to. And that is that sometimes we think that we're feeling bad and really we're just trying not to feel bad. And that makes us feel bad for longer. Right? As opposed to like really actually getting in our body and processing the emotion. And I like the idea of like taking a break by like actually. Like stop resisting the experience of the emotion and get in my body.

You know, feel it, identify it, process it, let it go through me so that then I can have a break from it. Like sometimes we're just carrying around the despair or carrying around the grief without like, you know, getting in our body and letting it process through us. Kind of like, you know, the analogy that I always use is like the weather, like you aren't the storm, the the storm. If we compare the storm to like a feeling and sometimes we're just, you know, feeling like we are the storm as opposed to, like, the storm can pass through me.

No, I like that. And I when you were talking, it was reminding me of like, taking a walk. And you can take a walk and feel like a break or if you're carrying that with you still. But try not to think about it. It's like somebody chasing you on your walk. Like tapping you on the shoulder. Like you're that's not going to be a relaxing walk, that if you can actually process those feelings and work through them, then you do have a real break. And versus knowing it's it's kind of like taking a break from your homework, like the real break is finishing it so that you can be done and not have it hanging over your head.

Yes, exactly. And I think sometimes when we're trying not to feel bad, we're trying to take a break from feeling bad. Right? So we're trying to not feel bad. We aren't we haven't actually like, as you said, so beautifully there finished the feeling. Right. And so I just think it's good to remind all of us that, like, you are capable of feeling anything and that will happen inside your body. So it's just a matter of like leaving all the thoughts and leaving all the all the information and dropping into your body and identifying where am I feeling something, you know, what does that look like? You can ask yourself those contrasting questions.

Is it fast or slow? Is it heavy or light? Is it hot or cold like you're just trying to describe the actual physical experience of it and just watch it. That's all it requires is just watch it, observe it, and if you do that long enough, it just sort of melts and changes. And then we can like be done with that emotional experience and be ready for the next one. Yeah. All right. So, and then your third tip was to take some action.

And I loved the ideas that you shared. And so, I'm just going to like have you kind of like expound on that about taking action. Because I think especially when things happen far away or even in, you know, it's I don't think that's maybe that's not true, that it's just when it's far away. Sometimes when something happens to your neighbor, you're like, I don't know what to do. There's nothing that I can do to, like, make this better and like, but especially when it's happening, you know, in Gaza, I'm like, what? What can I do? And it feels so overwhelming.

And anyway, so I'm going to give that back to you and see your thoughts there.

Yeah. Think taking action feels good because think. But think we can get paralyzed by it too. Because it is like I am a woman in Arizona with no. Like I have no power to help anybody in Gaza with, you know, I can't solve that situation. It reminds me of this quote by Edith Eger. She says there will always be questions with no answers and some things you'll never understand. Don't even try to. There are so many reasons why this happened or that happened, why we are where we are, why we do what we do.

Grief forces us to get clear about what's my business? What's your business and what's God's business? And I, I think that's like sometimes we do have to be like, okay, the situation in Israel is not my business. It's God's business. But what can I do in my little sphere? I know I'm not going to solve it, but it doesn't have to mean that what I can do is futile. And what I can do is, you know, make a donation to some organization that is helping.

They're finding a reputable charity that's serving in that spot. Even if you're like, I can provide one meal for someone, you have changed their day. You know, you have made a difference. Sometimes, you know, even to do something local, like can't affect things over there. But I could help somebody here. And there's, there's still people and they're still suffering where you are right now.

This reminds me of Mother Teresa, who sometimes people were critical of her. Like, you're not doing any good. You're like a drop in the bucket in the sea of poverty, right? Like you're just like Calcutta was a hole when you came. And it's a whole when you left. Right? Like, what did you do? Right? And I remember, like, somebody, the former mayor of Calcutta, in fact, like, criticized her, saying, like, she had no significant impact on the poor of this city. Like, that's like when she was canonized as a saint.

That's what he said. It was like she had no significant impact on the poor of this city. Like we're just as poor after she was here, they when she came. Right. And she just said, unfortunately, needs are always greater than our ability to meet them. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't act right and think like that's so powerful. Even for my my friend who, you know, lost her daughter like, her needs are so much greater than my ability to meet them at this point. Right. But that doesn't mean we should do nothing. And she again, Mother Teresa just said, like, never worry about the numbers.

Help one person at a time, and always start with the person nearest you and just love that. It's like, okay, like you're right, I can't create peace in the Middle East. Can I create peace in my home to can I start with the person nearest me? And sometimes it's just like peace with myself, right? Like that's that's even nearer. But sometimes like to do something like you said can feel so good and it can be so near you and still be really effective at helping you feel better.

Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree. And I think it's easy to feel like your little contribution is.

Nothing in the grand scheme of things in the sea. Those little nothings add up to some, you know. To something big. Yeah. So, I just think we do what we can, but sometimes, like, we just don't have the spare, you know, money to make an impact, like to make a donation to. And we want to do something else. So something else we can do is write a letter. I like that idea. It's something anybody can do. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, if it's something more local, write a letter to your government.

Leaders don't know that the leader of Hamas is going to be reading my letter. So yeah, but we can, you know, write letters to other people in our communities, like maybe to a synagogue or, you know, something local, like, I'm so sorry for the pain that you are feeling, like I, you know, just something like that. That's a.

Beautiful thought. And it reminds me, like last year when there was a shooting in school shooting in Texas, like, for whatever reason, I was so devastated by it. I like, was so heartbroken. It happened the same day my son graduated from high school and was just like, like. So devastated to think about these parents who were never going to see their own children graduate. And it just felt so unfair to me. And I did write so many letters to my Congress and to my congresswoman to be like, listen, like I think something should be done.

I think we should change these laws like I it was one of probably the the first and only times I was like, I'm going to write a letter. I want my voice to be heard. And I think both in like an activist format, you can use it. But also, I loved your idea about just like a compassionate letter to other people who might be affected.

Or even like especially expressing gratitude, but like that, if it becomes, you know, it's like like when you were talking about writing to your congressmen because it's like, yeah, they're going to do what they're going to do, but at least they know how you feel about it. And exactly. And yeah, yeah. And they can't deny that. And that's.

Right.

It helps you feel better for sure. Yeah.

Want to I'm just like I don't want to be like, I don't want you to be under the impression that I'm okay with this. I want I want you to know that I'm not okay with this.

Yeah, right. Like I don't want to.

Just like. Like you just assume that I am because it was not right. So. Yeah.

Yeah. And sometimes even just the act of writing out how you feel is so good. You know, just the act of writing it helps you feel so much better. Sending it even better.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Okay, what else can we do?

Well, I think when we're feeling overwhelmed and overloaded, I really believe in making sleep a priority, if you can. I know some people struggle with insomnia, and that's just kind of mean to say prioritize your sleep. But, you know, if we're staying up late to watch news or, you know, distracted by that, it's not going to help. It just doesn't help. Yes, it helps us think. Just think. Our brains and bodies work so much better when we've got a full tank of sleep to process all that we have taken in during the day.

And actually, like it's a really important thing for your brain health as well. Like we take in information all day long, and it's not until we sleep that our brain has the has a moment to file everything away and make sense of it and assimilate all the information that we've received. And if we aren't prioritizing that sleep or we're taking in information, but like our brain hasn't categorized and made sense of it and like been able to process any of it and that it can be really taxing for you neurologically and, you know, for your nervous system.

And so, think that's a really good overlooked thing that we don't really we don't really think about.

Yeah. My daughter was in Chile during some like major political unrest and there were tanks in the streets and all kinds of things. And I remember staying up all night on. Yeah, Twitter, Chilean Twitter. That was then putting into Google Translate because don't speak Spanish. Wow. And you know, just trying to make sense of that because it does. And, you know, just trying to really figure out what's going on. And I wasn't sleeping and it was just it just made it so much bigger and worse than it really was.

Yes. Because yes, I was not giving my brain the time to process and process it. Yeah, yeah. And I was spending too much time soaking it. It.

Yeah.

You're like think it's really easy to do, right? Like, your brain is like, this feels like I'm doing something like taking in information somehow feels like action. Right. And yeah.

And think some people are especially that way like I'm a big research is action person and it's really not all the time. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anything else that comes to mind that can be helpful.

I think spending time in nature is really helpful. We kind of talked about that taking a walk. It just kind of helps bring perspective like Habakkuk prayer.

Yeah.

Meditation. Just doing like things that can calm your nervous system and everybody's going to have stress relief, things that they love to do that helps. Kind of like, I love to listen to music really loud because it helps my brain just like turn off for a bit and don't want to do that all the time. It's kind of like an almost like a numbing behavior, but it it helps me just get a little break. Yeah. And then you feel kind of ready to to tackle that. But one of the things that I didn't put in this post, but I talk about a lot with my clients, and I found this paragraph in that same article was talking about by Jeff Chew.

And he says we absolutely ought to pay attention to the. Of the world, grieve them, lift them up in prayer, and do what we can to help where we can. But we also need to remind ourselves of goodness. We also need to cultivate joy, and we also need to find ways to kindle our hope, none of which need be the same as blithe ignorance or harmful neglect. We can do two things at once. We can be grateful for the beauty we glimpse around us, while also working for peace to spread.

We can decry injustice and hatred while nurturing goodness and delight. Our performative woe does nothing to end suffering elsewhere.

And gosh, I just love that so much because sometimes I think we really like there's so much suffering I shouldn't. Yes. And I've seen so many people being happy.

I shouldn't feel joy, I should I be celebrating? Should I be enjoying my life when there's so much suffering? Yes. We feel guilty.

Yes. And I've been seeing that so much lately with people even whose like whose jobs are on Instagram. Like, I just feel like I can't even put anything on here. Like can't, I just can't. Should we be having this party? Yeah, because it just feels wrong in the face of so much suffering. But I love that we can do two things like the embracing the and of all that's so beautiful, we can witness this joy, but we have this pain. But we have to cultivate the joy and look for the good and be the good.

And I think that is yes. You know, it's maybe not always easy to do, but it's just taking away that guilt of. Yeah, joy and love it.

Because it's not. Love it because it's not denying the bad. It's just remembering that it's. It's both that they both exist in our world. Yeah, I love that. Think I saw that on maybe on, Sharon says. So that like joy is an act of rebellion sometimes. Right. That like choosing to be joyful is like like our own act of rebellion in the face of, like, so much pain.

Yeah. I was reading a book called inciting Joy by Ross Gay, and he says that grief is the way we metabolize change, and I really like that. Idea of that and through that process, like it is going to be hard, it is hard to metabolize that. But there is joy along the way as well, and they can both be part of it and part of our lives. Because, you know, like you said earlier, like things are happening and things will continue to happen and we'll always have to manage the grief of the world as humans in the world.

And so part of that is being able to find that balance of witnessing it and cultivating joy where we are as well.

Oh love that. Think that's a perfect place to end? That is a beautiful thought. Thank you so much for for this discussion and for the work that you do in the world, helping us make sense of our of grief and pain and everything that is such a part of life. Right? So, yeah. Thank you so much.

Well, thank you for having me. And thank you for all you do to help us think our way to better life.

All right. I hope that that was helpful for you. It was so helpful to me to have that conversation with Kelly. And I hope that most of all, that you have just come away with the feeling that you are not alone. You are not alone. And while grief is real and readily available to us, so is joy. And one of the things that Kelly talked about was the power of talking to someone else. And I just really want to put a plug in here. If you are grieving and you're experiencing grief in your life, Kelly is really the best person that you could talk to about that.

And I will put her information in the show notes so that you can contact her and work with her directly to be able to navigate your grief. And if you aren't necessarily dealing with grief, but it's just life itself that feels hard and heavy, and you want that to be different, and you want to enjoy your life experience and your relationships and get the most out of your life. You can come talk to me anytime. I offer a free coaching session every week. I have a slot there for a free coaching call, and you can sign up for one of those and see what it's like to be coached and to feel better.

And what a difference that that can make. So as always, you can sign up for that on my website. I would love to be able to talk to you about anything that's going on in your life. It just feels better to talk to somebody, and I will put a link for that call to in the show notes. I am taking on one on one clients right now. I currently have one open spot left, and so if you think you would like to grab that spot and have me be your coach, then sign up for a free session and we can see what it's like to work together and I can give you all the details.

Okay, my friends, that's what I have for you today. Remember that we ought to absolutely pay attention to the sorrows of the world and grieve them, but we also need to remind ourselves of goodness and cultivate joy and kindle our hope. And we can do two things at once. And that, my friends, is 100% awesome. I love you for listening and I'll see you next week.

Thanks so much for joining me on the podcast today. If you're serious about changing your life, you first have to change your mind. And the best way to do that is through coaching. I work with my clients one on one to help them change their thoughts and their feelings about themselves, their lives, and their challenges so that they can live a life they love. If you'd like to work with me one on one, you can learn more and schedule a free call to try coaching for yourself at April Price Coaching.